Why You Should Reduce Your “To-Do” List to ONE Item

The Andrew Baker Show

December 5, 2020

“The only way to do more is to do less.” I have the honor of being the inaugural guest on the first episode ever of The Andrew Baker Show! And I boost morale by pointing out that the first episode of anything usually sucks (not because of me of course). But a podcast, a video channel, a Facebook ad, a lead funnel … you rarely get it right the first time. But both Andrew and I are “recovering perfectionists.” The way to get it “perfect” is to start doing it, even if it’s imperfect.

Andrew surprises me by asking me about the “endgame” of digital entrepreneurship. Of course, it never does end, but we talk about my view of the meaning of life, and how I could conceivably see my path leading into politics. Of course, I hate politics, but I discuss why I think I would be the one incorruptible politician ever.

We also talk about:

  • My stint as the worlds number one Kindle publisher of Amish romance novels, and wondering who bought those things considering Amish people don’t own Kindles.
  • What the “four-hour workweek” means to me, and why people scoff at it.
  • Why my older brother thinks I don’t work for a living.
  • The critical difference between efficiency and effectiveness.

About the Show: Andrew Baker is the host of the The Andrew Baker Show.

Full Transcript

Andrew Baker: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the first episode, the inaugural episode of “The Andrew Baker Show.” I have Dylan online on today and we did start recording in a little bit of a mid-conversation, but the stuff he was sharing with me was just so good that I decided to start it out of nowhere. So I hope you enjoy the conversation.

Dylan Ogline: Even if you fail, you do 50 episodes, and it doesn’t go anywhere. You don’t make any money off of it, if you had really good connections and you connected with people, you had good conversations, and it was a positive experience with 50 people, that’s probably going to take you somewhere. I don’t know where, but just that is probably worth the effort. Yeah, I think that’s huge. And, just remember, your first episode’s going to be shit. First episode’s going to be terrible. Actually, it’s not just podcasts, it’s all other industries and businesses. People make the mistake of they look at “The Tim Ferriss Show” or “The Joe Rogan” show. They see that production and are like, “I want to do that.” You got to realize like that’s like the 500th iteration.

Andrew Baker: I mean, for Joe, it’s literally the 1,500th. He’s in the 1,500s.

Dylan Ogline: Yeah, 1,500th iteration, and you’re on like episode two and you’re like, “Oh, my mic sucks.” It’s like his mic probably sucked too in the beginning. Like it wasn’t until the 50th episode or whatever where he actually like figured out the mic and stuff. But you don’t get to the 500th iteration without doing the first ten.

Andrew Baker: Yeah. Yeah.

Dylan Ogline: Just do it. Get that shit out there into the marketplace now and move. And if you fail, so what? Like at least you tried something and you didn’t spend two years thinking about it like an idiot.

Andrew Baker: Okay. All right. Well, I mean, total transparency I’m one of those idiots. I’m one of those idiots. Have been for a long time, right? I am a recovering perfectionist.

Dylan Ogline: Same here. How old are you?

Andrew Baker: 25.

Dylan Ogline: Good. Yeah. Start now.

Andrew Baker: No, I know I’ve got a long ass time, but I’m a recovering perfectionist. And I think that’s part of where my love of research also comes from. Like, oh, let me research this thing for weeks before I even take action. How do people overcome that? And that’s a very selfish question because I’m in that process, but how do you think people generally get over that?

Dylan Ogline: Try to do less would be my answer there. The only way to do more is to do less. And I practice more of this on a daily basis. If my to-do list is ten things today, I guarantee I’m not going to get a single damn thing done. But, if my to-do list has just one thing, like a big thing, something that’s going to move the business or whatever forward, move my project forward. If I just have one thing today, I’m probably going to do that.

Andrew Baker: Yeah.

Dylan Ogline: So, yeah, do less.

Andrew Baker: Got ya. I love that.

Dylan Ogline: It’s the only way. And this comes from personal experience where I spent so many years suffering, and getting nowhere, and bouncing around from project to project. Do less. Great example is like I used to be a perfectionist when I would start a project or a business I had to have a fancy logo, and a business card, and stationery, and an envelope that I would never send. I had to have all that shit.

Andrew Baker: The domain. A website set up.

Dylan Ogline: Then you got to have a LinkedIn, you got to have a Snapchat, you got to have a Facebook, and all this shit. When I finally got advice from a mentor and decided to go down a different direction and it finally clicked. I don’t know why I didn’t snap my fingers earlier, but I finally did that.

Andrew Baker: Snap your fingers.

Dylan Ogline: I ruthlessly battled against that. And literally when I decided to focus on my agency, I decided to focus on one single service. My natural instinct was like, “Okay, well I got to set the phone system voice over. And I got to get a logo. And I got to get the website.” And I was like, “No. You aren’t going to do any of that shit.” I had a seven-figure agency for two years before I ever even had a website.

Andrew Baker: That’s awesome.

Dylan Ogline: Ogline Digital, which it’s now Ogline Digital, that’s what it’s become. Didn’t even exist until the beginning of this year. Because I just was so ruthlessly fighting against that. And then I started to focus on my training program more, and people were like, “Do I need a website?” And I’m like, “You probably should.” And they’re like, “Well, you don’t have one.” And I’m like, “Oh, okay, all right.” So I just pushed the button. Yeah, you want to definitely have a website, don’t go so far to the extreme, but to just ruthlessly keep things simple would be my advice. Wait. Did the show start?

Andrew Baker: Dude, it started. We just transitioned. I was like, “You know what? This is just pure gold. We’re just going with it.”

Dylan Ogline: I’m good, man.

Andrew Baker: I heard Tim Ferriss say one time, he was asked what the key to his creativity was, and he said, “Lowering my standards.” And that has always stood out to me. He’s like, “Hey, if you can’t write one awesome, awesome page, write half a crappy page.” And there’s this dichotomy between effort and creativity that you kind of have to straddle that line. So if you put too much effort into it, you’re raising your expectations so high that creativity can’t actually flow.

Dylan Ogline: Absolutely. That’s actually a good one. For me, personally, when it comes to like creativity, say I’m writing an email sequence or whatever.

Andrew Baker: Yeah.

Dylan Ogline: My goal is I realize that it’s going to take ten iterations of it until I actually am like happy with it.

Andrew Baker: Yeah.

Dylan Ogline: So me, personally, I’m like, “I’m going to sit down and just bust out an hour or two hours just write crap, just boom, get something out there.” And if I only end up keeping one sentence from that, that’s okay. But just boom, get something out on a page. And this kind of goes back to the only doing one thing a day. I try to set out two hours of creative, big something work per day.

Andrew Baker: Awesome.

Dylan Ogline: So when I was working on my training program, I am still working on that, the newest version I will literally just sick there and just for like an hour just write out crap when I’m working on something brand new. And I realize like that’s okay. It’s about just getting the thoughts out there. This might be from Tim Ferriss. I know he didn’t say, but there’s some writer who says, “Writers will find a reason to polish their white shoes.” What they were getting at was like as a creative, you will find every excuse in the world to not do your creative work. It’s just the way it is. you will go polish your white shoes, and do the dishes ten times, and then refold all of the laundry in your drawers, and re-check your email for the 20th time, and then, “Oh, it’s 10:00. We’ll start it tomorrow.” As a creative, you’re just going to do that. So the best thing to do is to just shut everything off, close it all down, and just boom, write something for two hours. Just brutally force yourself. I don’t even know where we were going with that.

Andrew Baker: Have you published a lot of that so-called crap? Or do you keep it to the side and then publish when you get to the good stuff? And the reason I ask that is I think of Gary V and what he talks about is like, “Hey, what you think is crap could actually help someone.” It’s your opinion of that material that’s keeping you from hosting it. But it could help even a single person even though it’s written terribly.

Dylan Ogline: There’s a lot of truth in that. For me, personally though, what it actually is, is it’s more like it’s this I don’t know if I want to say limiting belief when I’m done with that maybe. It’s this belief of like I need to have the perfect concept in my head. And by just forcing yourself to realize like this is the first version.

I’ll give you an example. So I’m having this video I’m adding to my email sequence. A common question I get is why do you do what you do? So I wanted to create more like a personal video where I talked about this where I give like a personal answer. Like I’m just rambling and just answering this question. And I decided while I’m on a hike in Pennsylvania, I was visiting family, and I just decided I’m going to make this video. In my head though I’m like, “Well, I need to have the whole script thought out. What am I going to talk about,” and everything. And you just trick yourself into being like this is just the first version, so just grab your phone, hold it up, start walking and talking. This is the first version. You’re not going to publish this.

Dude, it ended up being actually really good. I thought it ended up being really good. I ended up making a second version, but I just tricked myself into thinking nobody’s going to see this. I do the same thing when I’m writing an email sequence, or ad copy, or whatever. Like nobody’s going to see this until I publish this. This is just the first version. And, like, half the time the first version ends up actually being killer. But it’s you will spend forever not writing the first copy because you want to get the perfect concept in your head. You’re just like, “Put out the first copy. Put out the first version,” and then reiterate it if you need to.

Andrew Baker: Yeah. So, I mean Dylan, you’re a high school dropout.

Dylan Ogline: That I am.

Andrew Baker: Right? By all means, you shouldn’t be able to articulate as well as you do. You shouldn’t be able to have such intelligence, advanced, well put together thoughts and principles that you obviously…

Dylan Ogline: You’re really setting the expectation.

Andrew Baker: Right?

Dylan Ogline: I’m not really intelligent.

Andrew Baker: Well, I mean, wink, wink, right? They don’t know. But these thoughts, these ideas, these amazing principles, they came from somewhere. Where?

Dylan Ogline: Other people, man. Yeah, I don’t consider myself to be an intelligent person. I mean I’m not dumb, but I’m not well-educated, that’s certainly for sure. It was just other people, man. I mean you can’t really see, but actually I read a lot.

Andrew Baker: There we go.

Dylan Ogline: There’s a lot of books in there. I read a lot. Training, mentors, I’m in training programs, and mastermind groups, and just standing on the shoulders of those who have come before me, even if they’re younger than me. Yeah, it’s just learning from other people, that’s it.

Andrew Baker: Do you feel like not going through formal education helps you get to that point of realizing like, hey, there’s a lot of wisdom out there?

Dylan Ogline: Yeah. I would agree that, for me, the lack of formal education was all about getting a head start. So I’m 31. I’ve owned my own business for more than half of my life. Most people who are 31 can’t say that.

Andrew Baker: No.

Dylan Ogline: I have 17 years of experience. I’m 31, most people can’t say that. So that’s why I dropped out of high school because I wanted to get basically a head start.

Andrew Baker: And started selling cellphones.

Dylan Ogline: My very first business was I was 14. Actually, no, for further context, the first kind of wasn’t a business that was shoveling driveways, and sidewalks, and stuff. I did that. I’m from rural Pennsylvania so I would grab my shovel, and during the winter, and I would go around to all the houses and be like, “Can I shovel your driveway for like $5?” I did that when I was like ten, 11.

But my first kind of business was selling cellphones. This was before the iPhone and anything like that when all the good phones were made in Europe. And smartphones, I should say, the good smartphones were made in Europe. And I wanted one of the, I don’t even remember what it was, one of the smartphones. And I ended up on some like wholesaler website, and applied to be a wholesaler, and they approved me for some odd reason. So the short end of the story is that I was able to get these European cellphones at wholesale cost, ship them to the United States, pay all those fees, and then flip them on eBay and make $50 to $100 a phone. That was the very first business that lasted about a year.

Andrew Baker: That’s awesome. Where did you graduate to from cellphones?

Dylan Ogline: Cellphones… So that got shut down because my merchant account found out I was under the age of 18.

Andrew Baker: Oh, bummer.

Dylan Ogline: So I don’t even remember what I did right after that. What I had learned was during those 12 years before like it finally clicked between the ages of 14, 15, and 26, 27. There was always kind of a backdrop of doing a lot of “agency work.” So websites, if you needed a logo, I could do it for you. If you needed a banner, you needed a PowerPoint, Dylan was your guy. Like I did all that kind of stuff, and there was many other projects that I started and failed. I talked about this earlier in the show I did earlier today. For a period of time, I’m very proud of this, I owned the world’s number one Amish romance novel publishing company on Kindle. Number one, baby.

Andrew Baker: On Kindle.

Dylan Ogline: On Kindle. Basically. So what it was, I took this training program where the guy he taught you how to start a Kindle publishing company. And the strategy used was you didn’t write the stuff because it takes too long to write all these books.

Andrew Baker: Yeah.

Dylan Ogline: You hired writers on like Elance. I think it was Elance at the time, now it’s Upwork.

Andrew Baker: Yeah.

Dylan Ogline: And get like a 2,000-word book. Short, short book. You pay like $50 for that, you’d get a cover designed for $10. So like $60 to $70 out of the gate, boom, you got a book written. And you target like a bunch of different keywords, or categories, you’re just trying a bunch of different stuff and you’re seeing what sticks. And the category that kept sticking was Amish romance novels. There was another category, but that was…

Andrew Baker: I seriously can’t.

Dylan Ogline: Like 75% of revenue was Amish romance novels. I think I published like 500 of them. All of these hired writers, there were series. I never read a single word of any of them.

Andrew Baker: Dude, are you kidding?

Dylan Ogline: The covers were hilarious. You would have like this like shirtless guy with long hair and like a…

Andrew Baker: And like a pitchfork.

Dylan Ogline: But people bought it up.

Andrew Baker: Oh, I love that it’s Amish stories on an electronic device. That is what kills me. That is so funny.

Dylan Ogline: It didn’t click until years later where I was like, “Who was buying that?” Isn’t one the Amish. The Amish don’t have Kindles, I don’t think. But yeah, that was…

Andrew Baker: Oh my gosh.

Dylan Ogline: It never made a lot of money. Max, I made like $1,000.

Andrew Baker: Hey, you were number one, dude. Number one.

Dylan Ogline: There was no doubt I was the…

Andrew Baker: I got to ask though, out of how many?

Dylan Ogline: It doesn’t matter. I’m not talking about that.

Andrew Baker: First and last place, baby, what up?

Dylan Ogline: There had to be at least one other company in that space.

Andrew Baker: Oh, there had to. I mean if there’s that many people buying books.

Dylan Ogline: It was great though. For a period of time you would go to like that category in Kindle and it lists like the top 20 books, and I’d be like, “I got ten out of the top 20.”

Andrew Baker: That is so awesome. I didn’t know you could filter Kindle books down by Amish.

Dylan Ogline: Yeah, Amish romance novels.

Andrew Baker: That is awesome. So you’ve been running this digital marketing agency for how many years now, four years?

Dylan Ogline: So it’s the end of 2016 is when I scrapped everything and just focused on the digital marketing management service. Again, it didn’t become Ogline Digital until the beginning of this year.

Andrew Baker: Well, I mean you only bought your website then so.

Dylan Ogline: Yeah, I finally built a website. Finally had to get it up so.

Andrew Baker: Yeah. What is it like running your own digital marketing agency?

Dylan Ogline: Kind of like running your own business, which I’ve been doing since I was 14, so it’s no different man. Because you get focused and you get niched down and you’re just doing one thing, you get better and better and better. Not only providing your service, but the operations get better and better and better.

Andrew Baker: Yeah.

Dylan Ogline: I got a very small but incredible team in place. Requires next to none of my time. If I work four hours a week on it, that’s putting it very, very high. It practically runs itself and that allows me to put most of my time now into my education company.

Andrew Baker: That’s awesome. So, I mean, you mentioned four hours. I know we had talked about Tim Ferriss earlier. I know you’re a big Tim Ferriss fan. And in your bio you mentioned that you’re practicing the four-hour workweek, which is incredible. Tell me, I’d love to learn about your kind of transition into that. Or was the four-hour workweek kind of a mentality that you always had or was it like a transition into, hey, there’s actually even more possible here that I didn’t even know about?

Dylan Ogline: So, yeah, sure. So there definitely was a transition. And it was when I randomly found the book. I really wish I knew when I picked it up, when I bought it, why I bought it. I don’t remember. I would add context that, yes, I live the four-hour workweek. That doesn’t mean I only work four hours a week.

Andrew Baker: Yeah.

Dylan Ogline: To me, it is more about being able to work on what you want, where you want, and when you want. Now it’s a little bit different with COVID because you can’t travel. But that could mean working 40 hours in a week while you’re in Bali.

Andrew Baker: Nice. Yeah.

Dylan Ogline: Just sitting and watching the beach or something like that. And yes, you might be working 40 hours, but you’re working on what you want to, something that you’re passionate about. And it took me years to make that transition. I remember when I picked up that book that I was going down the route of working a hundred ours a week, which I have done many times, being unhealthy, not knowing what a vacation was. Having a fancy office, everybody had to be full-time employees, like that was what I eventually wanted my business to be. And then I picked up this book and realized like that’s not a kind of life that I want to have. I want something like this.

And I remember looking at people when I was reading it and being like, “I will have my life like that some day.” And people laughed at me. And I mean I probably picked that up when I was like 21, 22. It took five or six years to get there. Because I had that foundation of this is what I want my business, I want this kind of lifestyle. That really made it easier to build the agency once I decided to go and focus on just that one single thing. It made it a lot easier because I was able to hire out a team where most of the people are outside of the United States. I’m able to hire based on talent not based on location.

Because your lifestyle is important, it forces you to put systems and processes in place that are actually better for the business, for your team, for your clients. Like none of my clients know my cellphone number. They’re not calling me at all hours. My phone’s always on do not disturb. Things like that make me better at what I’m doing. And if it weren’t for that knowledge I wouldn’t be here. 100%.

Andrew Baker: Why do you think people laugh at this, man? Cause I hear everything you just said, I’m like, “Gosh, like that’s the freaking dream.” That is the dream. Everything that you just talked about. Like if we could all live like that where we’re all working hard still, but we’re working on things that we love to do. Like that is the perfect scenario. And why do you think people scoff at the idea of that being a possibility?

Dylan Ogline: I believe it’s just culture. We live in a country, in a world really, where working eight hours a week and having a heart attack in your 30s is a badge of honor. You did it, man, you killed yourself working on something you hate. And it’s almost like this you went through the grind of suffering so it’s this badge of honor. And I’ve written articles about this, and I’ve given interviews that talk about this sort of thing of like this old guard, Baby Boomers who believe in working a hundred hours a week. And if you’re working anything less than that, if you’re trying to be efficient, you’re being lazy. And, yeah, I think it’s just a culture thing.

My brother is ten years older than me. Love my brother, but he’s definitely like that old guard where he believes that I’m not a working man because I don’t grind away for 80 hours a week on something I hate. Or that I can get up at 10:00 in the morning-- I get up earlier than that-- but at 10:00 in the morning if my girlfriend’s like, “Hey, do you want to go do this hike?” I could be like, “Yeah, let’s do it.” Whereas most people, most Baby Boomers have a 9:00 to 5:00 job, they don’t have that freedom. So the short answer is it’s a culture thing, 100%, it’s just culture.

Andrew Baker: Yeah. I mean that mentality, do you think there are actually people happy doing that? I know there’s that badge of honor and there’s definitely I feel like they’re kind of like overcoming maybe an insecurity. It’s like, “Oh, I would love that, but I don’t think I can do it, so I’m going to make fun of it to make myself feel better.” Do you think there are some people that are actually like legitimately happy doing the 50 to 100 hours a week working something they hate?

Dylan Ogline: I think it’s possible. I’m a Millennial, I think you’re a Millennial too.

Andrew Baker: Yup.

Dylan Ogline: Our generation is more like “we want to do things more efficiently.” Like what is the most efficient? There’s a huge, massive difference between efficiency and effectiveness. We care more about what’s effective. So I said earlier efficiency. We care more about what is effective. You could be the most efficient at checking your email a hundred times a day. You might be the most efficient person in the world at that. That’s probably not top effective. You’re probably not going to get anywhere in your life in that.

And there’s a certain pride that comes from saying, “I am extremely efficient at this.” And hard work is rewarding, but we kind of look at it and be like, “Are you actually doing anything there? Like is that effective?” Effective is I only check my email once a day or every other day. And because of that I’m able to produce good work, this creative work that actually moves the needle. There’s a massive difference between those two things. But could people be happy? Yeah, I think hard work is certainly rewarding, but I believe in working smarter, not necessarily harder. If you could combine the two and work hard on something that’s smart, like awesome.

Andrew Baker: Yeah, that’s the perfect spot, right?

Dylan Ogline: Yeah. But if you’re just doing something to keep busy just so you could say that you’re working, that’s really stupid, don’t do that. You’re being an idiot.

Andrew Baker: Yeah. I totally agree.

Dylan Ogline: For context, I certainly made that mistake. I’ve spent a lot of my life doing that. Wasting too many thousands of hours doing stuff just so I could be busy. Busy is a choice. Don’t be stupid. Don’t be me.

Andrew Baker: Yeah. Yeah.

Dylan Ogline: Don’t make the mistakes I’ve made.

Andrew Baker: Sorry, let me think of a way to worry this really well. Where does the business journey end for you? Or is this now something you kind of talked about like this is something you actually just straight up enjoy doing. You enjoy the digital marketing. You enjoy your coaching company. Is there an end in site ever? I know that’s a really big question. And the reason I ask is, at leas for myself personally, like I said I’m in sales and it’s always kind of been a means to an end. And as I think about what I want to be doing for the next 60, 70 years of my life, I don’t want to do things that have an end. I don’t want to do things that are just a means to an end.

Dylan Ogline: Means to an end.

Andrew Baker: Yeah. I want to do things that bring fulfillment in and of themselves and things that I can do forever. So are you at that place yet or do you still feel like you’re maybe one or two steps away from getting there?

Dylan Ogline: I still feel like I’m one or two steps away. It is not a means to an end. So this is a very personal answer for me. Very few people are probably going to relate to this. So I look at my life and I consider myself extremely lucky. I have a lot of gratitude. And as clichéd as it is, I want to give back. I kind of consider the purpose of life is to take advantage of the luck you’ve been given. Whatever it is. It might have been that I randomly found “The 4-Hour Work Week.” It might have been that my brother randomly, when I was 14 years old, had “Rich Dad Poor Dad” sitting around and I randomly picked that up. That’s luck to me.

So I believe the goal of life, the purpose of life, is to take advantage of the luck that you’ve been given, go as far as you can with it, and give that shit back. Kind of give back more than what you took. And this is something that over the last two or three years I’ve really been thinking a lot about. And that’s really why I decided to focus more on the education company because I consider myself very lucky. I’ve had mentors, randomly I had mentors that I would not be where I am if it weren’t for those people. Training programs that I took, I would not be where I am if it weren’t for those training programs. So I’m constantly thinking about giving back. I do have a kind of a deeper desire to help. I’m constantly thinking about how I can help on a larger scale and public service is something that I think a lot about. I hate politics.

Andrew Baker: I was going to ask. Yeah.

Dylan Ogline: Politics is very, very messy, and dirty, and gross. But I don’t know how I could help as many people as possible without getting into that. So that would be my answer if that makes sense.

Andrew Baker: No. I love that.

Dylan Ogline: It wasn’t a complete answer because I haven’t formulated that.

Andrew Baker: But that’s also that is an ever-evolving answer, right?

Dylan Ogline: Oh, absolutely.

Andrew Baker: I don’t know if that answer ever really has a finality to it. And, yeah, I got to say I kind of agree with you. As much as I hate it, the messiness of it, it’s something I thought about actually quite a bit. Like, hey, in 12, 15, 20 years, whatever that timeframe is, I’m going to be at a point where I just want to share the abundance that I have. No, go for it.

Dylan Ogline: No, no, I apologize for interrupting. For me, why public service in particular sticks out-- and this might be egotistical in some way or another-- is I genuinely am authentic when I say I want to help people. And it’s so gross and messy, and you have these people who they don’t actually want to help somebody, this is beyond policy. They actually aren’t compassionate about other people. And the reason I said possibly egotistical in nature is that I feel like I can’t be corrupted. Like I genuinely just feel so much gratitude for all the shit I’ve been given in my life. Even the bad stuff I’m so lucky for, and I just want to help other people, and that is genuine. And I don’t know, that yeah, that’s the end. That’s all I got to say. As Forrest Gump would say, “That’s all I’ll say about that.”

Andrew Baker: I mean you’re obviously just in this place of complete abundance, gratitude, as you said. Is the goal of your coaching company to help people get to that place? Is that an ideal outcome of your coaching company is that they end in that same, let’s say it’s a state, it’s a state of being, that state of being of abundance. Is that the ultimate goal for it?

Dylan Ogline: Yes. So the actual tagline goal is to help and essentially help anybody start and grow a six-figure digital agency. But during the program, I also teaching about things like mindset, and keeping your operations slim, like your lifestyle matters. And I see that there’s a lot of people, especially younger Millennials and whatnot, where they don’t want to do the 9:00 to 5:00 thing. They don’t want to waste their life working 80 hours to have the badge of honor of a heart attack in your 30s or 40s. They want to do things a little bit different. And, yeah, like that is the goal of the program, and the only reason I selected digital agency is like, well, they’re going to need to start their own business, I know how to start a digital agency. So I kind of know how to make money in that industry, so that is I think what I could teach people to do, so that they could have this lifestyle.

Andrew Baker: Awesome. Dylan, where can people find you?

Dylan Ogline: DylanOgline.com. Pretty simple.

Andrew Baker: Okay. Dylan, I appreciate you. Thanks for being on.

Dylan Ogline: Absolutely, man, thank you so much.